This is the second video of a short interview between Terry and Simon Virgo on the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit". I posted the first transcript here. The video footage of the interview is below the transcript.
Simon Virgo: What would you say to people who say; "Oh I got it all at conversion - there is no point in my asking for anything more than I already have". How would you respond to that objection?
Terry Virgo: Yes, I guess I read so much of Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones that I almost feel his answer coming up in my heart. "If you have got it - then where is it?!" - he used to say. To be honest it is so evident in the New Testament that the coming of the Spirit upon people was so transforming. Even Jesus Himself was anointed to do the task that He was called to do. You find an Old Testament illustration in finding Elisha saying to Elijah; "If I am going to do your ministry and continue what you've started then I must have the same power".
I feel for us if people are saying; "I have been baptised in the Holy Spirit at conversion - which is what some may say, then well - praise the Lord if they are experiencing what those guys experienced! For myself - I would say that I didn't and I was powerless! I would say in Cornelius's household - he was saved, filled with the Spirit all in the same day. No one even laid hands on him. God sovereignly did it - and it may be that some of our friends have had that. They know that the day they were saved, they were flooded with the Spirit and the Spirit was with them. That was not my experience. And it wasn't the apostle Paul's experience. It was three days later that he received the laying on of hands and he received the Spirit.
We know this happened with the Samaritan believers as well - Philip led them to Christ and then days later, the apostles came to them, laid hands on those new Christians and the Spirit came upon them.
So there is plenty of Scripture to show this as a separate experience.
Simon: I guess the disciples themselves on the Day of Pentecost - already born again and then received the Spirit?
Terry: I would tend to say that because the original disciples lived through the whole redemption process - Cross, Resurrection, Outpouring of the Spirit - it is hard to build a doctrine on people who lived through the whole thing. Some people would say that John 20; "He blew upon them" - I personally do not feel that there was any impartation then. I believe that was like a prophetic action. "When the wind comes - you will receive the Spirit". They were not transformed by it - they were still hidden away. Thomas wasn't there. I do not feel that was an event - rather a prophetic statement. It happened on the Day of Pentecost.
Simon: I guess similarly it is interesting that Jesus Himself received the Spirit at the Jordan before going into ministry.
Terry: Absolutely.
Simon: What would you say to an individual who feels uncertain as to whether they have had this experience and who is longing for it and seeking for it and is thirsty for it?
Terry: I think we should seek God. Galatians chapter 3 speaks about receiving the Spirit through faith and I think there is a faith element. We come to God to receive.
The laying on of hands is quite common in the New Testament. People received the Spirit through the laying on of hands so it shouldn't be ignored - it may well be the way.
I had people lay hands on me and have had the joy of laying hands on lots of people - it is a biblical concept. So there is faith - there is the laying on of hands. But I think ultimately one should be aware - "I have received" - because He is called the "Seal of the Spirit" and that is something recognizable. That is the whole point of a seal! If I seal something - that has got my mark on it.
We are talking about something that is not merely inward but it is manifest.
Simon: So I suppose it is important for us not to settle for less than experiencing the Spirit's Presence and zealously looking for that and looking for Him to help us.
Terry: In Galatians chapter 5 it says "Walk in the Spirit and you won't fulfill the lusts of the flesh". That is an amazing promise! Often people talk about the "battle of the flesh and the Spirit" - oh it is so difficult! That is a direct promise! Walk in the Spirit and you WON'T fulfill the lusts of the flesh - that is a solemn promise. So to be full of the Spirit - Ephesians 5; "Be filled with the Spirit, singing psalms, hymns". There is an invitation to be continually filled and then the outworking of it as you go through Ephesians 5 there is great moral content; how to live your life, marriage, children and so on.
The Spirit-filled life has all kinds of outworkings.
4c. Baptism into Christ and the Holy Spirit from Terry Virgo on Vimeo.
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